by Medisid
‘’If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants/predecessors.’’ – Sir Isaac Newton
During the process of applying to electives and choosing between the elective choices, months and places; I committed or observed other’s mistakes pertaining to overspent application fees, missed rotations, listing too competitive departments, overlapping acceptances, F1,B2 visa overlapping problems. So I would like to share the experience and some ‘personal/my own/sixth sense’ thoughts. Everyone’s entitled to one and I am expressing mine here.
Choosing your specialty:
Decide what you want to become now! A gastroenterologist, Oncosurgeon, Radiologist .........Remember we have to prove during our residency interview/personal statement why we want that specialty and justify it (electives in that specialty is a good solution for it).
For pure terminal branches like Rads there is no difficulty in choosing your rotation. Start with basic radiology, then higher branches like interventional etc.
For other non-terminal branches you face problems in choosing your specialty. In fact IM, Peds and Surgery are the most sought after specialty for rotations. Their sub-specialties usually follow the trend of fellowships popularity. If you want IM, then always give preference to IM subspecialties of your interest or previous background. Remember Sub-Internships are the best and are the most difficult to get. Many places IMGs are ineligible for it. Usually there are multiple choices to fill. Try to list initial choices from your sub-specialty of interest. You can fill the last choice from your backups. Cards, Gastro, Hem/Onc are the popular ones. Less popular IM rotations are Nephrology, Pulmonary Medicine, Infectious Disease, HIV, Geriatrics (in a crude decreasing order of popularity). Even Peds or Neurology rotation can complement your IM and vice-versa. Similarly for Surgery you can list subspecialties of your choice. The lesser known surgery rotations which you can use for back up are Transplant, Bariatric. Given your interest in surgery, you can also list cardiothoracic surgery, neurosurgery, head and neck surgery as backup. These do involve surgery and will be better than doing IM/Peds/or even OBGYN. There are some interdepartmental electives which can be useful for both IM as well as Surgery applicants; like Infection in Transplant Surgery, Surgical Nutrition and SICU. Nonetheless there are also some peculiar electives you’ll come upon which you may have never heard of. Sometimes the hospital location of electives can give you a hint. VAMC (Veteran Affairs Medical Centre) locations in each specialty are less sought by US seniors and we stand a good chance there. Ultimately, Diagnostic radiology is the best backup and would supplement any specialty you are interested into. Furthermore the ‘maximum number of students permitted per month’ are higher for radiology. So try to squeeze it into the list.
Months to Apply:
From my experience I feel that Jan-Feb-Mar-Apr-May months are easier to get into. The reason being US seniors(final year US students) usually prefer Jun-Jul-Aug-Sep-Oct-Nov months to do away rotations or visiting electives to get an idea about that residency program, impress faculty of that department for a prospective residency and so we have less chances of getting selected against them. Remember they have to complete this impression gimmick before/during the residency interviews which happen around Nov-Dec-Jan.YES! they sure are juggling with away rotations, step 2 CK and application and interviews all at the same time. (I once read on a forum how a Sub-Intern used his high number of interview calls to bunk his boring elective duty giving valid reasons as attending interview; 15 interviews = ½ month off from his boring sub-internship). During the next months ie Jan onwards, the away rotations hardly matter for their residency matching and seniors usually take up lighter rotations at home school so as to complete the need/credits/prerequisites for their successful graduation with the MD degree.
Arranging the Months and Places:
There are three types of application processing, namely:
1) Rolling: Applications are reviewed as they are submitted and usually decisions (acceptances or rejections) are declared in 1-2 months. Try to apply in advance so that during your processing period there would be vacant slots in your rotation period listed. But here your credentials matter more. Eg NIH, MSKCC...
2) First come first serve(FCFS): Applications are received and processed in order of submission and priority is given to those who apply early. Northwestern, Tufts, Brown Alpert etc
Though there are considerable overlap between rolling and firstcomefirstserve type, like weill.
3) Deadline: Applications are received as they come, but they are neither opened nor processed till the deadline is over. So there is no distinct advantage in applying early. Harvard is one of them.
When you read the details of application process of each program, you’ll identify the type.
Usually we try to do around 3-4 months of electives and wouldn’t it be great if we did it consecutively in a single trip. Electives are itself a costly affair and overstaying in USA and additional air trips can be expensive. Since rotations are 4 weeks in length or more accurately 26 days (1st Monday to 4th Friday), people get 2-3 days in between consecutive rotations to travel and settle for the next elective. So consecutive IS possible!
My advice is to apply to rolling applications first like NIH (it usually processes your applications in approx 2 weeks). Wait for its result. When they schedule you for any month(which they usually do!) Strike out that month from your elective planner and try sending applications to other rolling places and FCFS like northwestern, mskcc, brown and other places which do not have a deadline system. There are several ways you can avoid overlapping of acceptances for a single month. A) Arrange two different places with same months in reverse preference. Eg Place A – Jan, (1st), Feb(2nd) Mar (3rd) while Place B – Mar(1st ), Feb(2nd), Jan (3rd). Furthermore for a single month try to pair your top choice with your lowest. Eg for Jan; pair SUNY(my top choice coz of no fees) with Harvard (last resort coz of high fees). So if suny(top) accepted, I was fine. But if suny rejected and Harvard accepted then too I was fine,as anyhow I’ll have to do as it is the last option. Also you may pair two expensive and equal ones like harvard n yale, if u can afford only 1 month of paid elective so your choosing between the two was imminent and doesn’t hurt. Apply to deadline strict places like harvard at last when you have not received any confirmation from any places and the deadline for that month is approaching. From my experience I think DHL takes 5 days at max, Indian Govt Speed Post (10 days), Indian Post Regd Mail(15-20 days). Do Not forget to take flat 50% student discount from DHL (Yes! Half Price) if you are sending to any address listed as a university in USA. I even convinced the dhl guys that ECFMG, PA is an educational institution and we have sent documents there with the discount.
One more thing: If you plan on applying to Mt Sinai, Baylor or those places which need F1 visa, try to plan them at the end of your rotation period, so that you go on doing all the electives at B2 visa and then come back home change your visa to F2 and go again. It would be a muddle if u have to do a F1 rotation in between two B2 visa ones. Plus since F1 is strictly limited to the period of your rotation, returning immediately after its end would not be a problem if you are doing that F1 rotation at the end of your elective venture.
I would let medisid answer u
I would let medisid answer u in detail... but in short, when u have 3 months rotations in one institution... then it is usually their headache to schedule/ adjust your 3 months schedule... not yours...
I totally agree with umar and
I totally agree with umar and vaibhav bhai-s. If you rae interested in IM then prefer IM then do IM ones and similarly for surg. Usually in a college the dates dont overlap for consecutive months. Their elective schedule is like that. It is usually in different colleges that these happen.! So u just write three consecutive dates and give their options after it. Umar bhai said it right at one college its the college problem to arrange their schedule which doesnt overlap. if u want go for surgery go only for 'surgery electives' as your first choice. (surgery electives only would help decisively in gaining a surgery LOR and a surgery impression on your CV; if all your your surgery options are exhausted or u want a backup then list CTVS, Urology, ENT. Mind You! Anesthesia is a totally different elective and wud not greatly supplement your surgery intention.) For 'medicine' too I say the same thing. give pure medicine choices as first like hemonc,pulmo,nephro,add neuro n radio later in your list. Mix up only the medicine choices in terms of rank for every other month. Its like lottery, you can only choose electives and if you eliminate/rearange tough choices or give 1-2 as a backup then u have chances, as to have a result even if from your worst choice. Never list an elective u dont want to do!
You can try one thing, add one more page(computer typed with boxes as is in that application form u r filling) listing your further choices as 3rd, 4th, 5th and so on. Its not a harm except in places which restrict you to give only limited choices like Yale, Northwestern(dont do it in these places). It will greatly enhance your options. I listed upto 15 choices for each month in harvard (though i didnt get scheduled, coz i listed only IM choices as i didnt want to cough up 3300$ for non IM electives)
Best Wishes.
@ visitor
With due respect to ur thoughts of doing electives in all fields..i would like to place a small suggestion .. just an personal thought what i would like to share... Doin electives is for getting credit for ur USMLE... so that u stand above from ur competitors in the interview... So i would suggest u first decide which branch u want to do electives.. And do most electives for that field.. For example if u need a residency in IM do electives in medicine as ur first priority.. If u dont get a medicine elective then think about other fields but first go for electives in the field ur interested in.... It is just a humble suggestion.. please dont get me wrong...
And Medisid will give u the correct answer to ur question soon... All the best.. God bless..
hi.....
1. i have got yes from jefferson ,but in emergency and neuro, as i interested in IM do you think these are gonna b helpful ?
Congrats!
Dear Himanshu! congrats for having two electives in your bag!
1. Yes, if u have nothing else for IM, i think Neuro n EM are the next closest to IM. They are better than surgical specialties, if u aim for IM residency. And wud help!
2. Personally i applied for only 3 months of electives spanning 4 months. As sustaining in USA for each month is an expensive affair, plus the tuition fees charged by places. If u r financially viable to support for 6 months etc. i think it wud be bestest; as Umar bhai pointed out previously in the respective page. But 3 months, i feel is the common done by most IMG students. It all depends on your pocket-time-acceptances! best of luck for them.
3.All IM fields'electives are good for IM residency aim. Its just a matter of preference, competitiveness for that elective and your knowldege in that elective subject. Eg I liked Hematology but had some previous petty research exposure in gastroenterology, so hem/onc n gastro were my preferences. Competitveness, i pointed out in the above article. like cards being demanding coz of high # of applicants, while geriatrics being in the down.(who wants to work with alhiemers-dementia-old age ppl; very few! even though geraitrics is more abt hypertension, diabetes management etc. those diseases which r common in old age). Lastly is the knowledge base in that elecgtive specialty. I am weak with ECGs and Cards, so i didnt apply it anywhere, coz I knew it wud be difficult to make an impression with faculty there with my weak knowledge base and thus a weak LOR. But those subjects in which i had good command and good exposure, i preferred. But lastly I feel no IM-subspecialty is bad for IM residency. A good geriatrics LOR is better than a weak cardio faculty LOR. I felel that one should try to do all the different rotations in IM, in his stipulated time, rather than repeating specialties.
Best Wishes! & 'PASS IT ON!'
thanks medisid one more
thanks medisid
one more query doing 3 electives at one place or doing 3 electives at different places, which is better or its all abt LOR that matters get it from anywhere.
Hello Himanshu! I feel that
Hello Himanshu!
I feel that if u get 3 electives at a gr8 place and u can afford it there, then there is no need to roam around at different places. The important thing is best place to do electives, rather than different places. Also best place gets LOR from a faculty there, who has more weightage than one from an avg place. So i wud advise you to stress on good places. If u get 3 different electives at a good place, they stay put there. This way you would also cut down your costs of finding new accomodation, domestic travel in US etc. If u got in an avg place and also in good place for 1 months, then give preference to good place first. If u still have time n $$$ left then goto yout other avg places. Remember, as Umar bhai said in the respective post: Something is always better than nothing. As regards LOR, LORs from faculty at good place values more than one from avg place.
But if you want le leave an impression at different residency programs to gain consideration for residency interview invites, then it is better to go to different places and leave a lasting impression everywhere, so that when time comes for interview invites of residency, u have more options. But not all 'hardworking' medical students doing electives get invites; other things matter also like scores, research etc. So this aspect is a petty one.
Best Wishes n Pass it On!
thanks once again
thanks once again medisid,
regarding research i would like to discuss few things, if at all possible for u can u give mail id? mine is adlakha.himanshu@gmail.com, this is bcos i have an attchment of my reserch paper which just got published.
thanks ,
Himanshu Adlakha
@ himanshu
hi pal.. can u plz tell for which months u had applied in jefferson? n can i have ur email id i have a few queries which i would like to ask regardin electives..thnk u... my email id is vaibhav.doc@gmail.com
help!
hello evry1
medisid had mentioned that jan-may is the period where IMGs have gr8er chance of gettin accepted for elctives... my prob is that i will mostly have to apply for electives in sept-dec period...(cuz my docments wil b ready by feb next year n it will b 2 late to apply for march-may slot then!) guys is there a really bleak chance n sept-dec period???
plz help!
Not Bleak, but slightly more competitive.
Hi andy!
I dont think sep period is that difficult to be termed bleak chances, but there is more competition. Applying after feb has a positive side too. Since you'll be having all the documents ready by feb; I would advise you to be ready with all the paraphernalia (supporting documents) and keep watch on all the websites of university you are going to apply. It so happens that the elective applications for 2010-11 academic year will start opening in april-may (any dates) and then you can send your packet asap with you having an early bird advanatge in many places. Also places like baylor, NYU need a formal authorization # or approval before you send in your application and these places have their slots booked in april-may time (any dates, they put up on their website) so if u grab their slots, you will be having an advantage in applying.
I feel you can apply from july onwards(no need to wait till september) coz the applications of july also starts from april as of september. If you dont get positive response, you can again apply for post 2011 jan period (if u have $$$$ to spare).
Best Wishes.
Advise please!
I am currently doing my internship. I am getting a chance to do an observership/ research trainee under a professor in john hopkins. actually i ve a particular interest in neuro/ ped neuro autism particularly and this doc is the head incharge for their ongoing research. i wanted to know
1.how useful will it be?
2. john hopkins will be sponsoring a j1 visa for the same. This is the part that is worrying me the most, cos i ve heard that going on a j1 visa is dicy..can anyone explain the pros n cons? and also cos i had planned to give my cs when i go for this trip.
p.s I am really interested to go for this cos it s the field i want to work in my future..
Thanks!
ab usa and uk elective experience
AOA
plz help me out regarding my questions
I have done one 4 weeks elective rotation in General Radiology from USA .During my elective rotation , I was succeeded in obtaining a LOR from my supervisor in General Radiology, one LOR from professor of Nuclear Medicine . Basically Nuclear Medicine was attached with General Radiology Department.
During my elective rotation , I was also able to get a very good LOR from associate prof in Hematology/Oncolgy also(My supervisor introduced me to him during a lecture session and on his request , I was allowed to work in the hematology department also).
Now, I have got three lors but the problem is that all have got the same rotation dates.
please help me out ,how i will be able to use them in future wen i will apply for the match.
secondly,
I have also done one 4 weeks elective rotation from kings college london in cardiology. will that help me in my road to
residency.
I am interested in internal medicine.
hello mubahser!
Congrats of ur 3 different LORs in a span of 1 month.
I dont think PDs will try to correlate or try to figure out when u were doing those 3 electives...........They will just care that you did rotations under 3 different people...........thats my thought.......
But if you are concerned abt how to figure out a way. I would advise you that when confronted with an explanation, just say that you were working in all the 3 departments on a daily basis..............mostly oncologic cases and their radiological and nuc med findings............since you are very much interested to do fellowship in oncology in later on...........so basically you shuttled between those three departemts with your patients .......
Thsts the best advice I can give.............Other plz chip in!
Best Wishes
The main thing is LOR not the
The main thing is LOR not the rotation, so even if you have 3 LORs from a same place... if they are good enough... there would certainly help you...
Electives in US/ UK/ Canada/ Australia and some other european places all help but certainly not at the same level as a US electives... a good US LOR is way superior than a non-US LOR...
hi i need help i am a fmg
hi i need help i am a fmg from india i did 2 mnts elective from mount sinai but in 2 different fields 1 in dermapath and 2nd in pulmonary diseases medicine . i got 3 l.o.r but 2 from derma and 1 from medicine and derma l.or states that i will be agood addition to any programme . so plz. tell me will this derma l.o.r will help me in getting internal medicine residency .!!!!!!!1
is this possible?
im 'planning' to do 4 electives from the months of jan to april and then do CS during the month of april.
is this possible. or will i have visa issues even if i got selected for all electives?
can i stay for 5 months with a B1 visa?
im sory if the following qn appears stupid , but
can u get a multiple entry visa for a long time with a B1 visa? or is it a F1 visa?
pls help.
I know many people who have
I m not sure about long time multiple entry visa with B1... better consult some visa person...
about OBG in electives....
hello dear medisid.....
myself from INDIA,planning to go for ELECTIVES from DEC to FEB.....havenot given step 1...so tell me please when should i start my application procedure for electives so as not to waste much time in it as i have to give STEP 1 in NOV....
also can you tell me is it easy n good to go for OBG electives as i want my residency in particular this subject only.....???
AS people say its very tough to get into it....
N also howz NEUROLOGY as an another option??
PLEASE...do suggest me in a fruitful way as am really confused about it!!!!
THANKS IN REGARDS....
F1 visa prob
Hello,
Im a final year medical student. Ive applied to Mount Sinai for the month of September. Back in December before i had sent my application I was told by someone that wid F1 visa I cud stay in the States for at least 1 year since its a students visa...it was only recently that one of my friends told me that wid F1 you have to come back once your rotation period ends....Now i was planning on applying to Thomas Jefferson for the month of October...and I dont know what to do now...Kindly reply
Thanks
I m not sure abt it but as
Hi You get an F1 visa for one
Hi
You get an F1 visa for one month more than the period that you apply for. Like if your SEVIS (I-20) says you are a student at XYZ university for 3 months, you will be given visa for 4 months. I am pretty sure about that.
All the best
-Viraat Harsh
I have been reading the
I have been reading the elective catalog for Northwestern, and here's what it says under the internal med section:
Eligibility requirements: Due to the complex nature of the Internal Medicine sub-internship, Visiting students
must be from a LCME accredited institution.
Does that mean I cannot apply for infectious diseases and pulmo, my two main preferences? If not these, what would be good alternative choices keeping in mind my future goal to do a residency in IM? Thanks a lot
As it says, it is for IM
can anyone help me out with
help for electives
my graduation is august 2011 so i was hoping 2 apply for electives one more time with my 1st step score. This wil be my last chance 2 get electives plz guide me abt univer and also i hav heard april-agust period is relatively easy 2 get electives is that true........thax in advance
apply to other universities
PLz advice!!!
I got one elective in Peds Urology in Northwestern University,Chicago..but since it is a surgical subspeciality ,,m not sure whether I shud go wid it,,cuz i wan't 2 b a pediatrician,,so shud I apply again next yr and hope to get few(2-3) electives in peds+med fields,maybe ??
help in decision
It depends if you dont have
hey!! Thanx for so much of
Thanx for so much of info,you guys are doing a great job. I am an IMG,just started my internship,wish to do electives between Mar- July. When should I apply(optimal time)?
What is the optimal time to prepare for step 2 CS. ?
hey! well i think ur a bit
Hi I am planning to 3 month
i got acceptance from UT southwestern for the month of march and from jefferson for january & february but the UT soth western offers f1 visa while jefferson offers b1 visa can some one help me out to get rid of this problem can apply for b1 and stay for 3 months as it covers the rotation period of UT southwestern also or i have to apply separatrly for f1 visa for another month at a time
Hey pavan congrats for the
there is difference in visa and status in US. Visa is for entry in US and status is on which you are staying like B1 or F1.
I would suggest you to get B1 visa for jefferson, and after you enter in US apply for change of status from B1 to F1 for UTSW as both are non immigrant you can change the status.. go to USCIS site they have given all procedure and forms for same..
no need to apply for F1 visa, you can't have two visas at a time.
you will have to submit the I20 form n all docs and if they accept, your status will change to F1 from your rotation date in UTSW n also you can give CS on that visa as they give some buffer time for pack up n all.
I have also applied for jefferson for March yet no reply... when did you apply? which dept?
have you given step 1.. as you got in UTSW?
thanks for your guidance i
i heard that status change for b1 to f1 takes a long time as my duration of stay is for three months only
Excellent blog! I definitely
Dear Umar Bahai! Thanks man
Thanks man for the great effort you made, I need your advice, I've been accepted for electives at an american university but I did not choose the rotations yet, I am interested in doing either radiology residency or IM residency in the future in the states, so I want to choose the best electives to support my future residency application , I will be doing 3 month of electives this year and 2 months next year, for this year I thought of having a month of diagnostic radiology, and the other 2 for medicine but I am not sure whether to go for a month of subinternship in medical oncology and another month of subinternship in medical critical care or to go for subspeciality clerckships instead like cardio or gastro, so what do you think shall I do 2 months of the subinternships I mentioned or to go for clerckships?
thanks, I look forward to your reply :)
Thanks for your kind words;
student loans for electives
I'm from Mumbai,India.
As you very well know,the major chunk of expenses incurring,for getting a US residency is that for going for and completing your electives.Because,other expenditures like Step 1 & 2 fees are something around 50k..but a good 3 months electives costs around 15 lakhs(including application and tuition fees.)
Now,having that kind of money in hand,in cash,is not really possible for me.Can I take a student loan from a Nationalised bank,just for the foreign electives?
What do I really ask them to do?Because,I'm not really sure,in which places I am going to get the electives..
I visited my bank once with this dilemma,they told me to get a prospectus of the university,which is accepting you..Do we get these?
I wish to apply for Jan 2013 electives..
Has anybody any idea,how to get such loans?
Please reply soon.
Thank you very very much.
student loans for electives
I'm from Mumbai,India.
As you very well know,the major chunk of expenses incurring,for getting a US residency is that for going for and completing your electives.Because,other expenditures like Step 1 & 2 fees are something around 50k..but a good 3 months electives costs around 15 lakhs(including application and tuition fees.)
Now,having that kind of money in hand,in cash,is not really possible for me.Can I take a student loan from a Nationalised bank,just for the foreign electives?
What do I really ask them to do?Because,I'm not really sure,in which places I am going to get the electives..
I visited my bank once with this dilemma,they told me to get a prospectus of the university,which is accepting you..Do we get these?
I wish to apply for Jan 2013 electives..
Has anybody any idea,how to get such loans?
Please reply soon.
Thank you very very much.
Reply to comment | Welcome to MedEdia.com
Northwestern elective in nuclear medicine
hi,
I have gt an acceptance for a nuclear med elective at Northwestern. How useful would a nuclear med elective be for applying for internal medicine residency ahead? also, if I could do only 1 elective between this and one in ped cardiology at cooks county, which should I go in for?
Lastly, how important is obtaining an lor? Is it more imp than the rotation itself?
Thank you so much. I have found your posts very helpful in my application process indeed!:)
plzz need help..
hi ,, m glad to c dat u guys r helpng alot.. i m 4th year medical student in pakstan... m a u.s residnt.. m planning to go dere in summer 2013 nd i wll b in finl year .. can i do electives dere???? where shud i apply.. m gettng mad to c so mch of info bt cant find relevant to my situation.. plzzzzzzzz help me
hi, can u tell me how can i
hi, can u tell me how can i arrange elective dates in same institue's different depts to avoid overlap and get electives in all 3 months that i want i.e; i want to do 3 one-month rotations in fields like anesthesia,geneal surgery,urology for "surgey electives" and radiology,neurology,hem-onco,pulmonary,nephrology and general IM for "medicine electives" and my months are may-june-july............please reply very soon...thanx